REWARD

As I stated a couple posts ago, Thus Spoke Zarathustra actually applies to this part of the archetypal journey. After facing the fire dog, Zarathustra's reward is great deals of knowledge, and a new outlook on life. So, the question is, was this wisdom worth abondoning his followers, isolating himself, and basically having a mental breakdown soon after?
Well, I'd say it is. At this point, Zarathustra becomes a generally happier person, of course for him that isn't much, as he bassically hates people. Of course, this cheerfullness only comes after his breakdown during which he is more contemptful than usual. So, a complete turnaround with new wisdom, in exchange for isolation and a short-lived breakdown, sounds fair. If only those options were available to the rest of us. Would you take it?

Ordeal

For the ordeal, we will have to return to The Landing. The ordeal there is clearly the point when the boat Ben and Henry are on fllods, and Ben has to try to save Henrys life. Instead of giving my wordy summary, I'll skip right to my question. If Henry had been nicer throughout the book, would Ben have tried harder to save him, and would things have ended differently?
No, probably not. Ben tries increadibly hard and is terribly upset when he fails, but on the otherhand, a larger emotional connection could have caused an adrenilin rush that may have saved Henry. I'd bet that the authour wouldn't thin k of that though, also if Henry lived, it wouldn't have any emotional appeal. So overall, I don't think Henry could have lived in any instance whatsoever. But, if anyone reads this who has read the book, your oppinion would be appreciated.

Approach To The Inmost Cave

We now return to Zarathustra for the approach to the inmost cave. In this book, Zarathustra leaves his followers to go argue with what seems to be the devil. I announce it as seems to be because he calls it the fire dog and says all others misrepresent him, his other descriptions seem to reference the devil, but it is never said for sure. The two speeches leading up to this both deal heavily in it leading up to the climax of the second book, causing the debate to be the ordeal, and the abondonment of his followers being the approach.
So now that we have established firmly what the event is, what can we question in it. The most apparent question is, why would Zarathustra decide that confronting the fire dog is worth abandoning the followers he worked so hard to gather. After all, all he did throughout the first book was gather his followers.
So, why would he do this? It seems the only possible reason is that he is sure the wisdom he will gather is worth destroying all his hard work. The speech he gives on hindsight of his debate is very wise, and shows a major change in thought, so that supports my reason. Fortunatley, though angry wiht him, his followers do come back to him, and forgive him for the third or fourth time he abandoned them.

Tests, Enemies, & Alies

Since Thus Spoke Zarathustra isn't very good for archetypes, I have decided to resort to a book I read at home. Earlier in the year I had an interest in Dante Alingheri's Divine Comedy. I gave up after finding it increadibly irritating, but finished most of the first part, Inferno.
In Inferno, every new canto brings new tests or enemies, all of which are a different form of trial, and all of which teach Dante something. As they pass through the inferno, Dante's allie Virgil will coerce many demons to permit them passage, and take them closer to their destination. These minute conflicts must be the tests, enemies, & allies because they are to common, and too easy to resolve to be anything else, and Dante has already left his ordinary world.

Mentor

In response to the mentor question, I must say that my novel has none. Zarathustra serves as his own mentor, with no help from others. He is the mentor, to himself and others. His teachings come from excessivley long monologues through which he occasionaly gets an answer to what he was looking for, most of the time he becomes off topic and shrowded in metaphore, but he does teach himself plenty. He fits the mentor roll completley, except he is mostly teaching himself.

Refusing the Call

In my novel, with the lack of a specific call, it is hard to find a refusal. However, I can think of an event that seems to be a refusal. After some time with his followers, Zarathustra decides he can't handle them, he then runs away. His followers become very depressed and woried after he dissapears. After some time, Zarathustra returns accepting the call, and continues to pass knowledge to his followers.

Crossing The Threshold

The whole concept of Thus Spoke Zarathustra, is about the enlightened one preeching his wisdom to his followers. It seems Zarathustra has always been past the threshold, but I suppose his crossing point may have been going into the mountain when he was thirty to work through his thoughts in solitude. When he travels to the mountains, he lives by himself except for his friends the animals, he spends ten years there thinking, I suppose this time could also be his crossing point. The problem is these points are all adressed in the first paragraph of the book making it rather unspecific.

At a later point Zarathustra remarks that there is no way of convincing the majority, or rable as he so affectionaly calls them, that his thoughts are the truth, he must find his followers and teach them. The fact that the rabble can not be convinced in essence shows that his quest has failed, however it also succeds in that he finds his followers and teaches them to prepare for the overman.

"Thus months and years passed over the solitary; but his wisdom increased and caused him pain by his abundance." This quote shows Zarathustra gaining his knowledge, and becoming so much closer to the ideal overman. If there must be a place in which he makes a great change, this is the biggest I have found. This also may represent crossing the threshold because it was difficult, and caused him pain.

Limiting Beleifs

I am currently reading "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" by Frerich Nietsche. This book is somewhat lacking in limiting beleifs. The only beleifs that could be considered limiting are: I am too wise for others/ they are not wise enough to understand by thoughts, and "My happiness has wounded me: and all sufferers shall be physicians to me!"
But if I were able to speak with Zarathustra there is nothing I could say to help him. After all his limiting beleifs are the result of crossing the threshold, and thus does not need any help in doing so.

Heroic Traits

Ben, the protaganist of The Landing, has very few heroic traits. However he does learn and grow throughout the book, even if he is only learning about music. He is reluctant to do anything like move away or perform violin, both things he wants to do, and in the end does. He is also family oriented because everything he does is for his mother. He is innocent, but to a point where nothing happens. His final trait is he is almost self sacraficing when he almost dies trying to save Henry.

Archetypes

The only archetype I can identify from The Landing is the shapeshifter. Ben is a bit of a shapeshifter in that he will work very hard and focus and be a no fun phisical worker, then on the next page he will be a nervous performer playing violin for a bunch of rich New Yorkers, while drinking beer. Or he could be a very loving person, while trying to save his uncle from drowning. The fact that he changes his personality so often gives him a slight similarity to the shapeshifter.
"...Henry. I'm so sorry. Forgive me. It was easier, for a while." -John Ibbitson, The Landing. pg. 147

" 'I argue that capital punishment is still the best option, despite my opponent's worthy points. Even if it is a wrongful conviction. It is the most humane option.' "
- Lesley Choyce, The Book of Michael, Page 112
I can connect to this quote because I have argued that point and others somewhat recently. The topic of capital punishment came up, and I pointed out the advantages to my closed-minded listener. That is my only connection with this book. This is probably a good thing considering the book is about a drug-addict convict.

The book I am reading is The Book Of Michael by Lesley Choyce. This story is writen as if it were the memoires of a boy named Michael. His life thus far has been filled with troubles, mostly his fault. His biggest problem occured at the age of sixteen, when he received a call from the police. It turns out that Michaels girlfriend had been murdered and he was the last one to see her, the judge and jurry thought they knew what this meant and threw him in jail. While in jail, Michael began to read anything he could get his hands on. One of his favorites was Malcolm X's Autobiography. Six months into his conviction Michael is released, when he asks why it turns out that an old girlfriend of his had admited to the murder, the rest of the book is Michael reflecting on eveything that led up to this, and what he should do now.

This book is a dark, interesting, but sometimes long-winded novel. I can appreciate it at the same time as growing dreadfuly weary of it. An increadibly dreary start sets you up for a book full of depression, even thopugh interupted by occasional philosophical insight from the I Ching book trying to make things look brighter, the depressions still there. A fault in the novel is the autour using it to blatantly promote their oppinion of the world, pro literature, pro death sentance, against the media (a somewhat hipocritical oppinion for someone in his line of work.) All in all it is an acceptable book, I would just prefer a more subtle author.

"The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who can't read them."
-Mark Twain
This was found at http://www.quotegarden.com/books.html

I have chosen this quote because primarilly, it is true. I enjoy reading and find boring books dreadful and painful to read. So stating that, someone who reads boring and uninteresting books is just as bad off as if he didn't read, pleases me. Other contributing reasons are that things Mark Twain has said at other times have caught my interest as well. He is a very interesting man.

Yay, this is my first post. Isn't this exciting. I have no idea what to say.